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Post by 01apricotapiaries on Nov 18, 2014 22:29:55 GMT -7
Hi,
My wife and I are in the process of growing our little business into something bigger. We currently run about 60 hives and are planning to push up to 100 next season. We are doing a little bit of pollination, a little bit of honey production... I am not entirely sure how big we will grow to, but I imagine it will be +/- 400.
We are rapidly outgrowing our little 4 cylinder datsun pickup (some would argue have already outgrown). It seems like the industry standard bee truck is a dually with a good sized flatbed. I have never owned a big truck before and I am a little confused on the registration process. Could someone help clarify.
It looks like the cheapest way to register a one ton is as a farm vehicle.
In order to register farm plates, I need to get a US-DOT number, which I apply for with form MCS-150
Can anyone tell me what the timeline is like for getting a DOT number? are there fees involved?
Then I also need to apply for farm plate approval with ODOT?
I was confused from the FMSCA website if I also need operating authority (MC number) or if there were other forms that I need to work through.
Also, is there a chance of being declined farm plate approval?
Is there any kind of temporary registration that would allow me to operate while jumping through all the hoops?
If anyone has recent experience with this process and can give me an idea of what to expect, I would really appreciate it. Thankyou.
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Post by steve02 on Nov 19, 2014 8:30:47 GMT -7
You can just purchase and register a dually pickup with no additional forms or anything. Are you thinking along the lines of an F350?
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Post by 01apricotapiaries on Nov 19, 2014 21:52:04 GMT -7
Thanks Steve,
If that is the case, that is great.
I am thinking along the lines of an F350, or even a 450. Something that can comfortably haul a full tote of syrup or 100 supers and potentially haul a forklift.
You would know better than I, but doesn't an F-350 dually have a GVWR over 10,000lbs?
The OR-DMV website declares that all trucks and SUV's with a GVWR greater than 10,000lbs have to declare a weight and register as a heavy motor vehicle. In as much as I know, the only way to avoid the sky high heavy motor vehicle (T-plates) fees is to go for Farm plates (F-Plates).
Please correct me.
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Post by skylarkguy on Nov 21, 2014 9:27:03 GMT -7
I just went through this process. It was pretty straight forward. I filled out the farm form found here... www.odot.state.or.us/forms/motcarr/reg/9670fill.pdf Printed this form then went to see the motor carrier division in salem. The guy there had the form for the USDOT number and we filled it out together. 4 hours later I had my DOT number...it was quick and relatively painless. There are 2 guys that work the farm desk motor carrier division (Mike and Virgil)...I spoke with mike, it was smooth. If you can't make it to salem here is mikes phone number 5033785203. From there you take this information to DOT for issuance of title and plates. (I haven't done that yet) Note that Farm plates might have limitations for instance I'm approved for intrastate commerce so can only operate in oregon. Also he suggested to cover all the bases you should get the farm endorsement on your drivers license. Otherwise you are limited to 150 radius around the farm. I wouldn't hesitate to contact these guys....they were very helpful. |
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Post by HarryVanderpool on Nov 25, 2014 20:19:56 GMT -7
Actually, the Oregon Farm Endorsement allows you to drive trucks above 26000 lbs.
It is sometimes called a "Farm CDL"
It does not affect the 150 mile limit.
MAP-21 rules do exempt qualified farm trucks under 26000 lbs from the 150 mile rule .
They can in fact travel anywhere in the USA.
There are layer after layer of rules and exemptions that apply to farm trucks and hauling bees.
Trucking is just like beekeeping in that you have to take the time to seek out and learn all of the details.
Maybe this is something that the OSBA will under take for its membership in the next few years; a compilation of trucking requirements, rules etc....
Ever heard of UCR?
If you have a truck or trucks engaged in interstate commerce you must pay a UCR fee each year per truck or risk up to a $10,000.00 per day fine.
How about the CARB regulations in California?
Is your diesel truck even allowed in California?
Not if the engine model year is over 20 years old.
You must be able at all times to pass a DOT inspection .
Do you know what they are going to look for?
If you pull a trailer it must have a breakaway system.
Several years ago, an Oregon Beekeeper loaded up his Ford F-650 to the hilt with bees. Then he attached his trailer and loaded a farm tractor on it. Then he hand loaded single bee hives all around the tractor until there was no space left and headed for the big bucks in California.
When he passed through Redding he was pulled over for speeding. Then CAL-Dot was called out and they cited him for :
No breakaway.
No nets.
Overweight.
Improper securing.
No CDL.
No trip permit.
Ect, ect.........
It was ticket after ticket after ticket for hours!
The amount he paid in fines far exceeded the amount he made in almonds.
Don't take trucking lightly.
Take the same interest in learning that you have in beekeeping so that you will be successful!
:-)
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rak
New Bee
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Post by rak on Nov 27, 2014 1:08:29 GMT -7
Harry, where in CA law must a load of bees be netted? I have never netted bees and never had a problem. CDL? Why does he need CDL if truck is under 26k and trailer is under 10k?
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Post by HarryVanderpool on Nov 27, 2014 15:06:31 GMT -7
The very 1st time I took bees to almonds my load was not netted.
I arrived at the bug station at 1:30 in the am
When the AG lady came back she asked me, "Are you aware that there is a county that requires all loads of bees be netted?"
I asked, "In the middle of the night?"
She replied, "24 hours a day".
"What county is that?!!" I asked
"The one you are standing in". she replied.
The guy that got ticked for no cdl rig was over 26000. And the combined weight was WAY, WAY, WAY, over 26k.
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rak
New Bee
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Post by rak on Nov 27, 2014 15:48:43 GMT -7
I pass the station during light hours with no net. They just tell me to park a bit further... I'll call shasta county and find out, will let ya'll know.
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Post by HarryVanderpool on Nov 27, 2014 18:00:39 GMT -7
I believe Siskiyou County is who you want to call. Or did they move the bug station?
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Post by 01apricotapiaries on Nov 30, 2014 10:54:45 GMT -7
Thankyou everyone for the information. Thanks Harry for the sobering lesson.
Compiling a booklet of trucking laws would be a really amazing service if the OSBA could put something together. Also a great workshop idea for next years meeting. The laws can be really confusing with so many rules and exceptions. And regrettably they are not all in one place.
I have heard California can be a nightmare if you make it one. Emissions, permits... But as long as all the T's are crossed and the laws are followed, should be ok.
I looked up the UCR. I have heard of some people getting a three day trip permit at the California border. Is this a temporary version of the UCR? Or is this something else entirely?
Thanks again everyone, I am learning a lot. And it does help to have some reaffirmation.
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Post by HarryVanderpool on Nov 30, 2014 13:18:02 GMT -7
It can be very confusing.
Several years ago, Kenny Williams had 3 encounters with John Law in California.
He was pulled over at a scale for inspection, then he was driving down I-5 and was flagged over by a temporary DOT inspection unit, and something else.
The interesting thing was that they all asked for and looked at different things.
And are you ready for this?
NONE of them asked for the trip permit!
On the other hand I know of other beekeepers that have been fined for not having a permit.
And if your truck is diesel, you also need a diesel permit. Your trip permit will not be valid without a diesel permit if applicable.
UCR is totally separate. It is a federal program.
The money goes for safety programs and training. (so they say)
If you have a DOT # you must register annually for UCR.
It goes on forever.......
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rak
New Bee
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Post by rak on Nov 30, 2014 23:25:24 GMT -7
My bad, it is Siskiyou... Harry, did you have any bad experiences with dot?
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Post by HarryVanderpool on Dec 2, 2014 20:28:33 GMT -7
So, I'm glad that you asked the question.
After all, all I have done is post the horror stories.
I have been going to almonds for 11 years.
I have never been pulled over, inspected; nothing.
BUT, I make an extra effort to not give them a reason.
If they pulled me over for inspection, I would pass with flying colors.
Also, I set my cruse at 55, pour a cup of coffee, turn on the radio and enjoy the ride down. At 55 mph.
For the trip down, I OVER secure the load. In other words, How many ropes or straps is required per pallet? Per V-board? (do you know?
I add an extra.
Log book, truck log, maint files, copy of UCR, cargo bill, fire extinguishers, triangle reflectors, spare fuses, proof off annual inspection, brake inspection, legal tire tread depth, (yes that's the law)
etc.....
I don't give them a reason to hassle me.
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rak
New Bee
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Post by rak on Dec 11, 2014 0:18:29 GMT -7
Sounds like your doing well Harry... I have never had any problems with CA but hear about others that do. A far as straps I always run at least 1 per pallet but i'm a bit paranoid about it so seeing 2 straps per pallet isn't unusual on the last few pallets. As far as V boards, I don't use them. They shift the lids and hives. Instead I run 2x6 per pallet on top and (2) 2x4 on the last pallet.I have a gave in the center of the load which allows air to go through and v Boards would squish the pallets together.
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