slatted rack vs screened bottom vs not

[wade]

It seems the screened bottom is popular now, and slatted racks have a long history. However just the standard bottom is the simplest and cheapest, certainly as good or better than the natural hole in a tree. Heck I would even consider using both the screened bottom and slatted rack on the same hive.

I want to do the best thing to maximize the conditions for a healthy hive without chemicals and don't mind the initial investment, but on the other hand I don't want to go chasing after a ghost.

I did a search here and there is some info but can you veterans spell out what you have settled down too over the years and why?

Thanks.

[Thom]

The sbb and the slotted rack serve different functions. The sbb aids ventillation and gives a death sentance to any varroa that fall through. If they fell off their host on a normal bottom board they could attach themselves to another host.

The slotted rack gives young bees a place to hang out and rest away from the workers who are working.

[drew]

Does anyone even use the slatted rack thing.
I personally don't think it helps with anything.

Screened bottom boards help, if you have something on the bottom to catch them and make them stick. The little guys can live for quite awhile with no host and they have nothing better to do then walk while they are off a bee. Even jump around.
I'm not sure how far off the ground(or other surface) the screened bottom board needs to be where they would not be able to get back up again?

[NormCounterman]

Yes, the slatted rack can serve a very important purpose.
One slatted rack, gently tapped apart with a hammer will start about 4 fires in your wood stove. ;D
So, you have young bees that are needing something to do???
Give them frames of foundation to draw.
;D Normy ;D

[Todd Balsiger]

I will chime in and say I am the rare exception. I have built in slatted rack bottom boards -- like the ones Bill Kruger built and Ruhl Bee Supply sold. I will not claim they do anything special -- they do stay cleaner and provide extra room.

I made some more recently and plan to put in screen bottoms -- maybe they'll be the first combo slatted rack/screen bottom ever. Some reinforcement will go in so I can still move the hives with a dolly.

Don't knock the hollow tree -- that's what we're trying to replicate. And I will say this, screened bottom boards stay supper clean. But the standard bottom board works fine -- I get laughed at.

[Claude Hachey]

Greetings from the east coast of Canada ( Brrrr),

Nice board with great info.

I thought I would share my experience with screened bottom boards.

I started using them after the loss of over 500 colonies back in the winter of 2001 - 2002 (apistan resistant mites) and have found them to be an indispensable part of my colony management.

The SBB is designed with a sampling drawer (if someone can clue me in on how to include a picture on a post, I will do so - tried everything I can think of but to no avail).

As already stated in a previous post by Thom, they provide some degree of control as mites dropping off naturally are not able to re attach themselves to passing bees. The SBB's are also an advantage in this manner when applying treatments and mites receiving a sub lethal dose (not enough to kill them but enough to knock them off) are kept from re integrating themselves into the colony leading to resistant super mites.

I have relied on formic and oxalic acid for mite control and use the SBB's to determine if and when an intervention is required based on natural drop. I no longer treat all colonies based on 5 or 10% sampling as mite loads can vary greatly between colonies and yards. All removable drawers are scrapped clean every three or four weeks and rechecked three or four days later.

I can i d colonies that are coping with the mites and use these for queen rearing.

Winters here are long and cold(some years bees are confined from October to late April) and since using the SBB's, my winter losses have been in the four to ten percent range - I think due to the ventilation factor. Boards are also easily cleaned by the bees in the spring as the bees dying over winter dry out rather than become a wet moldy mass.

I also use the bottom drawer as a method of applying formic or oxalic acid(evaporator). I use absorbent (Scott) towels for the formic with a 40 ml dose(doubles) or 20 ml(singles) when the temperature is above 15.C which evaporates in four or five hours - no problem with my galvanized 8 mesh screen - at least not yet! This should not be tried when daytime temperatures are above 24C ( too high evaporation rate) and likewise not efficient at temperatures below 13C

I would not recommend an open screen bottom board as in my opinion, it could reduce cluster temperature and thus lengthen the brood cycle permitting more time for mites to breed. As a matter of fact, my entrance is reduced to a height of 3/8 in. yearlong in an effort to speed up the brood cycle and I also use an insulated (2"styro) top with no upper entrance during summer.

Another added benefit is when making up splits, I use the SBB with the drawer pulled out and the entrance closed off with high density foam. Comes in handy on hot days when you have a bunch of splits to do and move to other yards.

I go to blueberry pollination in the spring and have not had any problems with the SBB's. I use a boom when moving four colonies to the pallet - they are strapped and the bees will cluster outside on hot nights - as long as the drawer is held closed, there is no problem with them clustering under the hive. If the drawer was open, they tend to cluster underneath the screen and considering how smart they are reputed to be, they can't figure out how to get back in!

Wax moths are not too much of a problem here but I would think that they could be if not diligent in scrapping the drawers clean on a regular basis.

Hope this helps in your decision Wade!

Later,

[Thom]

Claude, welcome to the board. Glad you enjoy it. Eastern Canada, eh? Not Quebec though because I didn't detect a French accent I used to spend my summers up in the hills above Buckingham, Quebec. I sure do miss it there

Anyway, to post a photo you first need to upload it to the internet, if you have a website or you can use a photo hosting service like Photobucket of Yahoo. Once you upload the photo, copy the address where it resides, start a message here ckick the thing that looks like a photo above the 5th smily face here, paste the address between the "img and /img"and up it should come.

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but my bees are flying today.

[Claude Hachey]

Flying eh? Yuo've got to be kidding. Here is the view here in northern New Brunswick:

www.snapfish.com/viewsharedphoto/p=104311136078909001/l=73891427/otsc=SYE/otsi=SPIC

I did spend a few years on the west coast but to tell you the truth, I'd rather shovel snow than wade through rain.

Later

( I tried to fix your pic, I failed)

[drew]

Question for the ssb board, Do you seal it off in the winter to keep temps higher inside? aka drawer or whatever works to seal the bottom so it is not open to elements.

I would greatly love to see a picture of your bottom boards. I have been on a quest for 2 years now to see as many different screened bottom boards as possible to see what I think would work an be reliable. This spring plan to make a 100% switch to ssb.

[HarryVanderpool]

Ken Ograin produces a ssb and you can see it in the Glory Bee Catalog. You might want to compare his.

[Claude Hachey]

Somewhat bleary eyed this morning from last night's celebration.... I'm trying photo bucket instead of snapfish to send photos of SBB. Hope it works out considering what feels like cobwebs between my eyes. Already tried to post and for some reason probably related to my current state, the post disappeared - hopefully I'm not posting twice with the same message... Here are the pics










The drawer is kept closed during the winter as I've found that leaving them partially open is an open invitation for a real cosy condo for mice. They settle right in between the screen and drawer.

My colonies are kept on an insulated (2" styro) pallet (4 per pallet) year round and this pallet sits on a regular pallet. I like to keep them up off the ground. I have pics of my wintering methods if anyone is interested but with Thom's bees flying, my wintering methods would probably be overkill in your area. ( But then again, maybe they are just flying off to more hospitable quarters eh?)

I use 7/8" pine and the drawer is a combo of pine and corroplast (the white plastic stuff that sign makers use).Sometimes you can get it for free from gas stations that use them for promotions - usually they are printed only on one side which makes for a permanent white surface for easier on the eyes mite counts. It comes in different thicknesses and cuts well on a table saw with a thin blade.

The drawer slides are 3/4" dados and the frame of the drawer is made of stock planed to a width thin enough to prevent binding in case of wood swelling in wet weather ( real important unless you want to place yourself in a real embarrassing and somewhat vulnerable position sitting with two feet on the front of the hive and pulling at a stuck drawer). For this same reason I use a slanted landing board that prevents water from seeping in or pooling at the entrance.

The front and back of the board are cut wide enough so that I can get two sections of 8 mesh screen per 36" roll. As stated earlier, the super supports are cut to 3/8" thick to provide an entrance 3/8" high.

The construction of the board can be modified to provide a rear drawer rather than front but as I use four packs, this is not an option. The bees do not seem to mind the front drawer but there is more chance of bees getting stuck underneath during transport if the drawer is not secured.

Hope this helps and here goes with the post reply button

[Claude Hachey]

One more time!! Whew, preview seems to indicate it worked this time. Now I can relax by going out and clearing up the foot of snow we got last night. Glad it worked as I was starting to feel like the stupid end of a hive tool.

[Todd Balsiger]

Claude,

You indicate that if an "open" bottom is used, the brood cluster temperature will be lower, and the brood cycle longer, giving added time for the varroa to develop.

I thought the bees, as best as they can, keep the temperature uniform within the cluster. I can certainly understand how the brood nest can expand faster with fewer bees required to keep a given area warm. I had not learned that a lower brood nest temperature lengthens the brood cycle, or even that brood nest temperatures deviate. I did read that varroa don't like high temperatures -- that maybe painting hives black and placing them of SW aspects reduces their numbers. Can you elaborate on how temperature effects brood cycles?

[Claude Hachey]

Hi Todd,

First off, let me say that I am not a scientist and that colony thermo regulation and mite control is sort of a pet theory.

From what I understand re cluster temperature, it normally varies from 33.C to 36.C. I'll let you guys south of the border figure out what that is in F. as I have no clue. Here is a study re tracheal mites that showed that bees raised at 30.C took six days longer to emerge.

www.edpsciences.org/articles/apido/pdf/2005/01/M4055.pdf

From that, I would conclude that the higher range of brood temperature would favor more rapid brood development. I also recall reading that this is one of the ways that the AHB copes with the mites. I can't recall the source of this but will post if found.

As to the use of an open screen board, here is a study that concluded that the use of them led to higher mite loads when compared to closed SBB's.

www.reineschapleau.wd1.net/articles/AV-BOTTOM%20BOARD.pdf

We know that mites prefer drone brood most likely due to the length of capped period and reproduce well on them. The period I worry about is when drone rearing stops and the mites have no choice but to enter worker cells at a time of year when the outside temperature is dropping.

You might consider that this is a leap of faith on my part but I'm all for passive control methods. Time is my most precious resource with the short season up here.

Later

[Todd Balsiger]

Thanks for responding Claude and attaching those studies. You have influenced my plans and imparted knowledge. The message board paid dividends today.

And I think anyone with the name of Claude needs to stay where there's lots of snow! There are no Claude's in Oregon -- well, maybe.

And for anyone who doesn't know how to convert from Celsius to Fahrenheit, do this:

(C*1.8)+32=F e.g., 34 celsius equals 93.2 Farhenheit